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The first two parts of this book look at China’s acceptance and then rejection of the West. Mungello uses “the West” here to describe Europe and cites how in China this was frequently how Europe was referred to. While giving a good overview of the events and conflicts between the two cultures I have a few small criticisms about this part of the book. Firstly he focuses nearly all his attention on China’s acceptance or rejection of Christianity. He interprets the view as almost entirely the relationship between China and Christianity, rather than attempting to take a balanced look between merchants and missionaries. This leads to a rather distorted view, and ignores the conflicts between the two groups, for instance the role the Jesuits had in halting the expansion of trade by the Dutch at the beginning of the Qing. (There is however a small but interesting section looking at the influence of European style painting). The other criticism for this first half is that in his look at why the Chinese rejected the west, (or more precisely Christianity) he cites two different theories by 20th century European sinologists and does not refer to any Chinese sources. Surely if looking for the Chinese position it would be necessary to consult Chinese scholarship on the matter.
Another point that came about with the discussion of painting was the lack of mention of India or the Muslim world as existing. Granted the book is looking at China and “the west” however, I think looking at these in isolation, and ignoring the cultural exchange between the different parties is a rather large oversight. The Arab world was having a huge influence on the Renaissance at this time, and it had also been trading with China for centuries. Particularly in art it can not be assumed that there were two ways of doing things. After citing the example of a few artists that used variations on what could be a European sense of perspective, and discussion of some portraits Mungello concludes that the influence on Chinese art was, “limited but significant” (68) as it was a few artists over many centuries and had not influence on techniques in general I’m not sure this warrants the term “significant” to me this is more of a curiosity. As books about art and art techniques, were so common, was there many were European techniques were discussed? (I think this is probably a question for John Cahill the art historian).
The next two chapters look at the acceptance and then rejection of China by Europe. He focuses on the acceptance of Confucianism as a moral philosophy by Jesuits and Leibniz, as well as looking at the increased fashion of Chinoisire. He continues to look at the importance of Chinese philosophy in the Renaissance, but there seems to be no clear rejection in the chapter dealing with rejection. Instead it is not till the conclusion where he talks about how in the post 1800 world China is viewed as a barbaric and uncivilised place.
Still this book gave a very good overview of the main themes, people and conflict that took place between European thinkers, missionaries and the Chinese elite. The scope was narrower than claimed but it was interesting and a good overview. I think it would have benefitted from reading of more primary historical sources, particularly Chinese sources, and have been longer and encompassed more social and economic history. But for what it was it was informative and interesting.
2 – “During the period 1500-1800 China was truly a world power and the greatest nation in the world.”
Chinese acceptance of west
15 why were Chinese interested in western learning? And why did they become Christians?
26 – mentions white lotus and Christian teachings being intertwined 0 this is why they had 10 commandments in Fongsaiyuk 2!
26 rites controversy from Chinese perspective
32 - At time of embassy Shunzhi emperor (r.1644-1661) had personal control of the government for just 4 years and was close with the Jesuit Schall
33- Schall could present petitions directly to emperor bypassing normal channels
57 Schall was sentenced to death by cuts as was blamed for death of the Empress by selecting an inauspicious day for the burial of her son, but was released when earthquake hit the next day, after this the missionaries were expelled.
58 - 1724 declared a hetrodox sect and outlawed
77 “Europeans were influenced by China because they regarded Chinese culture as superior, and they were receptive to borrowing from China, at least until the end of the eighteenth century.” Several thousands of Europeans visited China and books about their travels were, “were consumed in Europe with avid interest”.
81- rather biased account of what sounds like the horrid treatment of Hu who was supposed to copy Chinese records for a Jesuit, but was treated terribly and wanted freedom, was put in an insane asylum as a charity case for 2 years, before being found by another Jesuit and returnted to Canton.
82 – Jesuits translation of 4 books into Latin started in 1580s and sent to Europe and published in a series finished in 1711. Presented Confucanism as moral philiosophy compatible with Christianity.
86-87 Muller’s work on Chinese and musical tones
(clavis sinica – key to understanding Chinese based on idea that all languages used to be one!)
89 – In 1658 Martino Martinie returned from China and published the first editionin latin of his work on Chinese history “The first ten divisions of Chinese history / sinicae hisoriae decas prima res” “first genuine history of China to appear in European language. Drawing from Chinese historical records” *this account may be the history that appears in Ogilby’s translation *check this*****
90 – “John Webb (1611-1672) published the book, An historical essay endeavouring a probablitlity that the language of the Emprie of China is the primitive language (London 1669). Read books widely published about china, and claimed that the decendents of Noah had migrated to China and thereby preserved the primitive language, hypothesising on from Martini’s work that Noah and Yao were identical and that the flood was worldwide.
*** were any other accounts published in English or did he know other languages or just use Ogilby?***
99 – influence of Chinese styles on western art producing the Chinoiserie blending of Chinese and European style for highly decorated textiles and porcelins.
*NEUHOFF produced the first engravings based on Chinese models, in BOOK published in 1665, with 150 illustrations. ***CHECK original illustrations with Ogilby and FRENCH ed.***
“The demand for Neuhoff’s book was so great that the French text was translated into Dutch, German, English and Latin and was widely distributed. A 2nd book that had a tremendous influence on shaping the European image of China was China Illustratea (Amsterdam 1667) by Athanasius Kircher, S.J…he edited reports of fellow Jesuits who had lived there [in china]. Of the many engravings in China Illustrata, several are based on Chinese paintings and woodcuts brought from Beijing by Father Johann Grueber.” 99
107 – Europeans scandalised with relationships with boys, Chinese most scandalised by relatinships with women.
107-108 Ricci and discussion of Sodomy, centred around capitals
108, Only funny because of the CAM “sodomy had been regarded as a misdemeanour of Giovani” (LOLS)
108-109 “Chinese immigrants to the Philipines from Fujian and Guangdong provinces had brought with them the established and widely accepted practice of taking male lovers in which the partners assumed a typical Chinese relationship based on age, with the elder partner refered to as qixiong 妻兄 and the younger as 妻弟 (but these seem common terms and may not indicate a sexual relationship?) The younger male’s living expenses were paid by the older man, who was treated by the younger male’s family as a son-in-law. These male couples frequently lived together until well after their thirties, however, the older male also paid for the marriage expenses of the younger male if he married.”
113 – “European knowledge of China over the years 1500-1800 did not continue to evole but rather after 1700 degenerated into the superficialities of exploitation by a European cultural movement (the enlightenment) followed by a negative reaction against this superficial image of china”
114 “European knowledge of China was so limited that it was possible for an imposter like Geroge Psalmanazar (1679-1763) to be accepted in meeting with the Royal Society in 1703, and (for a time) to be accepted as a native of Taiwan. His book, An historical and georgraphical description of Formosa, appeared in London bookshops in 1704 and immediately became a best seller in England, France, Germany and Holland, although it was a complete fabrication written by someone who had never been to East Asia”.
123 – Chinese described as “white” by those in favour and “yellow” by those not, in 18th century became much more “yellow”.
Another point that came about with the discussion of painting was the lack of mention of India or the Muslim world as existing. Granted the book is looking at China and “the west” however, I think looking at these in isolation, and ignoring the cultural exchange between the different parties is a rather large oversight. The Arab world was having a huge influence on the Renaissance at this time, and it had also been trading with China for centuries. Particularly in art it can not be assumed that there were two ways of doing things. After citing the example of a few artists that used variations on what could be a European sense of perspective, and discussion of some portraits Mungello concludes that the influence on Chinese art was, “limited but significant” (68) as it was a few artists over many centuries and had not influence on techniques in general I’m not sure this warrants the term “significant” to me this is more of a curiosity. As books about art and art techniques, were so common, was there many were European techniques were discussed? (I think this is probably a question for John Cahill the art historian).
The next two chapters look at the acceptance and then rejection of China by Europe. He focuses on the acceptance of Confucianism as a moral philosophy by Jesuits and Leibniz, as well as looking at the increased fashion of Chinoisire. He continues to look at the importance of Chinese philosophy in the Renaissance, but there seems to be no clear rejection in the chapter dealing with rejection. Instead it is not till the conclusion where he talks about how in the post 1800 world China is viewed as a barbaric and uncivilised place.
Still this book gave a very good overview of the main themes, people and conflict that took place between European thinkers, missionaries and the Chinese elite. The scope was narrower than claimed but it was interesting and a good overview. I think it would have benefitted from reading of more primary historical sources, particularly Chinese sources, and have been longer and encompassed more social and economic history. But for what it was it was informative and interesting.
2 – “During the period 1500-1800 China was truly a world power and the greatest nation in the world.”
Chinese acceptance of west
15 why were Chinese interested in western learning? And why did they become Christians?
26 – mentions white lotus and Christian teachings being intertwined 0 this is why they had 10 commandments in Fongsaiyuk 2!
26 rites controversy from Chinese perspective
32 - At time of embassy Shunzhi emperor (r.1644-1661) had personal control of the government for just 4 years and was close with the Jesuit Schall
33- Schall could present petitions directly to emperor bypassing normal channels
57 Schall was sentenced to death by cuts as was blamed for death of the Empress by selecting an inauspicious day for the burial of her son, but was released when earthquake hit the next day, after this the missionaries were expelled.
58 - 1724 declared a hetrodox sect and outlawed
77 “Europeans were influenced by China because they regarded Chinese culture as superior, and they were receptive to borrowing from China, at least until the end of the eighteenth century.” Several thousands of Europeans visited China and books about their travels were, “were consumed in Europe with avid interest”.
81- rather biased account of what sounds like the horrid treatment of Hu who was supposed to copy Chinese records for a Jesuit, but was treated terribly and wanted freedom, was put in an insane asylum as a charity case for 2 years, before being found by another Jesuit and returnted to Canton.
82 – Jesuits translation of 4 books into Latin started in 1580s and sent to Europe and published in a series finished in 1711. Presented Confucanism as moral philiosophy compatible with Christianity.
86-87 Muller’s work on Chinese and musical tones
(clavis sinica – key to understanding Chinese based on idea that all languages used to be one!)
89 – In 1658 Martino Martinie returned from China and published the first editionin latin of his work on Chinese history “The first ten divisions of Chinese history / sinicae hisoriae decas prima res” “first genuine history of China to appear in European language. Drawing from Chinese historical records” *this account may be the history that appears in Ogilby’s translation *check this*****
90 – “John Webb (1611-1672) published the book, An historical essay endeavouring a probablitlity that the language of the Emprie of China is the primitive language (London 1669). Read books widely published about china, and claimed that the decendents of Noah had migrated to China and thereby preserved the primitive language, hypothesising on from Martini’s work that Noah and Yao were identical and that the flood was worldwide.
*** were any other accounts published in English or did he know other languages or just use Ogilby?***
99 – influence of Chinese styles on western art producing the Chinoiserie blending of Chinese and European style for highly decorated textiles and porcelins.
*NEUHOFF produced the first engravings based on Chinese models, in BOOK published in 1665, with 150 illustrations. ***CHECK original illustrations with Ogilby and FRENCH ed.***
“The demand for Neuhoff’s book was so great that the French text was translated into Dutch, German, English and Latin and was widely distributed. A 2nd book that had a tremendous influence on shaping the European image of China was China Illustratea (Amsterdam 1667) by Athanasius Kircher, S.J…he edited reports of fellow Jesuits who had lived there [in china]. Of the many engravings in China Illustrata, several are based on Chinese paintings and woodcuts brought from Beijing by Father Johann Grueber.” 99
107 – Europeans scandalised with relationships with boys, Chinese most scandalised by relatinships with women.
107-108 Ricci and discussion of Sodomy, centred around capitals
108, Only funny because of the CAM “sodomy had been regarded as a misdemeanour of Giovani” (LOLS)
108-109 “Chinese immigrants to the Philipines from Fujian and Guangdong provinces had brought with them the established and widely accepted practice of taking male lovers in which the partners assumed a typical Chinese relationship based on age, with the elder partner refered to as qixiong 妻兄 and the younger as 妻弟 (but these seem common terms and may not indicate a sexual relationship?) The younger male’s living expenses were paid by the older man, who was treated by the younger male’s family as a son-in-law. These male couples frequently lived together until well after their thirties, however, the older male also paid for the marriage expenses of the younger male if he married.”
113 – “European knowledge of China over the years 1500-1800 did not continue to evole but rather after 1700 degenerated into the superficialities of exploitation by a European cultural movement (the enlightenment) followed by a negative reaction against this superficial image of china”
114 “European knowledge of China was so limited that it was possible for an imposter like Geroge Psalmanazar (1679-1763) to be accepted in meeting with the Royal Society in 1703, and (for a time) to be accepted as a native of Taiwan. His book, An historical and georgraphical description of Formosa, appeared in London bookshops in 1704 and immediately became a best seller in England, France, Germany and Holland, although it was a complete fabrication written by someone who had never been to East Asia”.
123 – Chinese described as “white” by those in favour and “yellow” by those not, in 18th century became much more “yellow”.